From Criminal Justice to the Pulpit: Dylan Morrill's Journey of Faith and Leadership

What happens when a young man with dreams of becoming a police officer finds his true calling in ministry? Meet Dylan Morrill, a pastor at Enjoy Church in Grand Junction, who shares his compelling journey of faith and leadership transformation. Dylan's path was forever altered during a profound spiritual awakening in college, leading him from the halls of criminal justice to the pulpit. Join us as we unpack his inspirational story and how it underscores the power of faith to redefine one's purpose and career.

Dylan doesn't shy away from discussing the challenges facing modern ministry. He candidly addresses the decline in church attendance and the societal shifts contributing to it, such as increasing individualism and secularization. Together, we explore how the church can find renewed hope and rejuvenation amidst valid criticisms and misunderstandings about its role. Our conversation also sheds light on the spiritual battles faced by communities today, drawing parallels with the thriving underground Christian movements in restricted countries, where faith seems to flourish against all odds.

For those interested in the intersection of business, life coaching, and faith, Dylan provides keen insights into empowering leaders through their unique gifts and fostering authentic relationships, especially with the younger generations. From balancing ministry and family commitments to the practical skills taught in ministry education, Dylan shares his thoughts on nurturing a supportive community that offers constructive criticism and guidance. Discover how everyday actions in any profession can serve as a ministry, turning simple encounters into opportunities for spiritual impact.

To check out Enjoy Church go to:  https://enjoychurchgj.com/

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Chapters

• 0:01 Journey to Ministry and Leadership
• 10:48 Challenges and Vision for Ministry
• 16:34 Reviving Faith Amid Spiritual Battles
• 21:12 Impact of Authentic Faith on Youth
• 32:59 Biblical Studies and Practical Ministry Skills
• 38:51 Balancing Ministry, Family, and Studies
• 49:00 Navigating Criticism and Conflict in Ministry
• 57:15 Transformation Through Consistent Obedience
• 1:04:19 Empowering Leaders Through Giftings
• 1:11:49 Business as Ministry and Relational Evangelism

Transcript

Tammy Hershberger: 0:01

Welcome to the Light Up your Business podcast, the show where we dive deep into the world of small businesses. I'm your host, Tammy Hershberger, and each episode will bring you inspiring stories, expert insights and practical tips to help your small business thrive. Whether you're an entrepreneur just starting out or a seasoned business owner, this podcast is your go-to source for success in the small business world. Let's get started to source for success in the small business world. Let's get started. Hi everyone, I want to welcome you back to another episode of Light Up your Business podcast. Today I have a friend of mine, an ex-co-worker. He was an excellent worker for me when I had him. His name is Dylan Morrill. How are you doing, Dylan?

Dylan Morrill: 0:39

Doing great. Tammy, thanks for having me.

Tammy Hershberger: 0:46

You are welcome, so I want to bring you on. I believe. Well, I feel leadership is super important in business. You're going to school to be a minister is that how you would say it? Or pastor.

Dylan Morrill: 0:53

Yeah, pastor, minister. However, you want to say it within that realm.

Tammy Hershberger: 0:56

Okay, well, let's open this right up and do you want to tell my audience who you are, what you do? Wow, you're amazing.

Dylan Morrill: 1:03

Yeah, I am a pastor at Enjoy Church here in Grand Junction. I work with our youth and kids primarily. I also serve on our board of elders, so I have some good experience with church leadership specifically. But my roles at the church are entirely volunteer and so I also work a job. I had worked at Starbucks for nearly three years, worked window cleaning for Tammy for a good chunk and just incredible experiences. So just trying to be the light of Christ in each and every business, each and every place the Lord takes me. Right now I'm working as a special ed para and so do that from 7 am to 3.30 pm and then after that I have the rest of the day for ministry, for school, for family and whatever else I get into.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:56

Well, that sounds way awesome. I'm really curious Do you care, if we just kind of jump in?

Dylan Morrill: 2:00

Yeah, absolutely.

Tammy Hershberger: 2:01

What drew you to the ministry? When did you know you wanted to do that?

Dylan Morrill: 2:05

Yeah, that is. It's probably going to take a minute to answer the question.

Tammy Hershberger: 2:09

Sure, take as much time as you need.

Dylan Morrill: 2:11

So, probably sophomore year of high school, I had known that I wanted to be a police officer and that was my passion. I bought thin blue line merchandise, had a thin blue line flag up in my room from when I was 15 years old and I was pursuing policing full head of steam, and that's actually what brought me to Grand Junction is Colorado Mesa has an excellent criminal justice program, so I was going to school for criminal justice, and it was after my freshman year of college that I actually became a follower of Jesus. I wasn't really raised, grown to church, and so I had like some mixed perceptions of church. I started going to youth group a little bit in high school, but I did not know Jesus as my Lord and Savior. And so it was after my freshman year of college, during COVID actually, I was alone in my bedroom and I had an experience with Jesus after reading the book of James, and it was just like, verse by verse, line by line, I met and encountered. It's so inexplicable, yet so real to me, and it was just like Jesus ripping me to shreds and was just like a shell of myself, and in that moment I realized that there was nothing I wanted more in life than to follow him. And so I turned to Jesus and I told him. I said I don't know what's going to happen with anything in my life, but I'm going to live for you. And so from there, it was an experience of like how in the world does this play out in my day-to-day life? I already made a commitment to be a resident assistant at CMU for the next semester.

Dylan Morrill: 3:52

So I went back to school and just slowly by slowly, I just felt the Lord drawing me away from criminal justice and from policing, and that had been like where I put all my eggs for so long. Um, I absolutely loved the degree program. I was ahead of schedule. Um would have been well graduated by now and maybe working for GJPD. But the Lord had some other things in store.

Dylan Morrill: 4:17

So one night I had to make a decision of if I was going to continue with criminal justice or not, and I had no idea what to do. Uh, so I went up to the monument and I told Jesus I was going to continue with criminal justice or not. And I had no idea what to do. So I went up to the monument and I told Jesus I was like I am not coming down from this monument until I have an answer. So I went up there, started to worship, started to read my Bible and I just felt nothing. And I was just so unsure so I just laid back and thought I'd watch the stars. Long story short, I was drawn to this constellation. The stars up there, for y'all who don't know, are just incredible. And so I looked up the name of it and the name was Aquila. I was like, okay, I know, I've heard that somewhere in the Bible. So I went, found Aquila in the Bible and I just started reading and it was talking about the Apostle, can I ask where it was?

Tammy Hershberger: 5:07

Where in the Bible it was, do you remember?

Dylan Morrill: 5:08

Acts, chapter 18. I cannot remember the exact verse that like struck me.

Dylan Morrill: 5:12

But I read this verse and it talked about how all of the Apostle, Paul's colleagues and friends, had wanted him to stay, but he knew that the Lord was taking him to his next ministry location. And so, um, I kind of it. It's. It sounds like a stretch, but, in faith, stepped out, trusting that, like this was what the Lord was speaking to me. Uh, was that? All the people, all my friends, my classmates, my professors, wanted me to stick around, and yet I had felt the Lord drawing me to my next thing. So, in faith, I dropped out of college college dropout, but from there I still did not know if ministry was for me. I just knew that criminal justice was not for me. So I was just step by step, walking in faith, seeing where the Lord would take me. So I get to a point where I am now a college dropout and I'm trying to work Uber Eats in Grand Junction, which is not really working. I'm from Denver originally and it is absolutely booming over there Was not getting by.

Dylan Morrill: 6:13

So I hop on this Facebook group and I find this incredible job posting from Eric Lammers and, um I commented on it. I ended up getting an interview, ended up getting the job cleaning windows, so working for Tammy. Her and Eric were business partners and through that job it they allowed me to also intern at my church and so I was just exploring ministry options and ministry career, trying to see like what that would be like in my life and so just still slowly growing through it. And as I'm interning I've just absolutely fallen in love with what ministry life is like and getting more and more experiences. Started leading the youth ministry at my church and just took that over with my wife and there's just nothing I'd rather do, wife, and there's just nothing I'd rather do.

Dylan Morrill: 7:10

And so, continuing into that, I was prayerful about whether or not I needed to go to college and pursue a degree, because there's plenty of incredible pastors out there who there's like a wealth of resources for leadership and theology and you can study the Bible very in depth and there's just a world of resources out there from youtube and um many ministries that are there to equip the church and to equip pastors outside of college. So I was like all right, there's many opportunities, many different paths I can take. So I again turned to prayer and was wondering, like lord, am I supposed to go to college?

Tammy Hershberger: 7:46

and tammy knows this I want you to tell this story because to me it's a testament pretty incredible.

Dylan Morrill: 7:51

So within the last couple weeks I had been praying if I should go back to college and pursue a degree to become a pastor, and so a couple weeks has gone by is actually like one of my least favorite days of work ever. To start out with, because I was cleaning the dumpster pad at chili's um was my least favorite job I think it was everybody's got really gross.

Dylan Morrill: 8:15

um, I'll never get chili's again, sorry chili's. But after that there's this next job and and I had never worked for this woman cleaning her windows, but I had heard about her. I heard she was very generous and her name is Linda Kemp. And so I just start cleaning the windows and Linda she usually just does her work in her office, sticks to herself. But her and I started talking back and forth.

Dylan Morrill: 8:42

I shared my testimony with her, shared my heart for ministry, kind of where I was at in life, and she asked me a question. She said, ok, well, do you need to go to college for ministry? Like, if that's what you're kind of thinking about doing? I was like you know, like not necessarily. That's something I was actually praying about recently. She's like OK, well, can you afford it right now? And I was just brutally honest with her. I told her, no, I could not. And so the next statement absolutely stunned me and she said well, okay, I'm going to pay your way through Bible college. Um, so currently I am just over halfway through a bachelor's of divinity and that sounds very fancy but, divinity is like a broader range term for a pastoral degree.

Dylan Morrill: 9:27

So I do theology, leadership and just like other ministry training. So it's a very fancy word. I don't know what exactly divinity itself means. So I'm halfway through that, or more than halfway through that degree now, and it is all paid for by this woman I met while window cleaning, after praying if I should go back to college, and then from there I've been getting my degree and just after that, internship at the church, just leaning in more and more saying yes, in the directions that God has led me and brought me. And so now I have some pretty prominent roles of leadership at the church.

Tammy Hershberger: 10:06

Yeah, we're going to dig into that some more. So you, that was a lot, but I want to dig into some of that because it's an amazing story. So well, let's just go back to Linda Kemp for a second. That is like my I talk about. Sometimes I hear of like and people don't. I'm so glad you came on, cause now they got the full story, Cause I just kind of keep it to the basic part of it because I didn't even know the whole thing.

Tammy Hershberger: 10:23

But it blesses me to know that, even though I'm not in the window business anymore and that is where it is still God used that business to help someone like you, and I mean he helped everybody that worked for me in some different way and it was a huge blessing for me when I had it. But I think it's so cool that enough for today. And he said that the provision comes on the battlefield and I love that because in my coaching I you know I bring god into my coaching that I deal with life coaching. Small business owners and I think about some people are so scared to get going. They're like, well, when I have the money or when I feel the exact go, I will, will go, or whatever, and they always waiting for something to go. And I always tell them you have to get started. The Bible is clear you get started, you start taking action and he will meet you there. And look what he did for you.

Dylan Morrill: 11:13

Yeah, there's a verse that comes to mind. It says the righteous shall live by faith. And and that's really what I did, cause there's so much uncertainty and so much questions and so many times where, like while I was working Uber Eats, I was like pretty much as broke as could be and turned to the Lord in faith, and then he provided a job in advanced window cleaning and then again the Lord's provision has just absolutely blown me away and it's come at times where I've been uncertain and unsure, but placing my trust and placing my hope in him has absolutely prevailed nonstop and constantly, even when it doesn't look like it's coming. I know from what's happened, what the scriptures testify of, that the Lord is absolutely faithful.

Tammy Hershberger: 12:01

Absolutely, and you have to stay in faith the whole time, because I think sometimes we give up too fast or maybe it takes a little longer than we thought and we want to give up and it's like don't, because you have no idea how close you are to that and sometimes it takes you building your faith, sometimes it takes challenges to get you there, and so to me you're like my little test. I just love that story because I'm like it's real stuff.

Tammy Hershberger: 12:21

It's not someone's happened Like you worked for me, people that you know we all know you and it's a real deal because you read stuff and it's like, oh, that sounds great, but I've never heard of that happening here. I mean, it happens so as far as that goes. So then, where are you wanting to go with your ministry? What is like? What's your vision for it? What are you thinking to put that to use of what God's done for you?

Dylan Morrill: 12:44

See, I've kind of gone back and forth over the years. I think initially what I wanted to do was just like full-time, long-term youth ministry, just pour into the next generation. Oftentimes people view youth ministry as kind of like a stepping stone rather than just like true and genuine ministry, and ministering to young people is just as valuable as ministering to adults. So I absolutely love that. But, based on the giftings I have and kind of where I feel the Lord is leading, I think that my wife and I will be the senior pastors of a church someday. So I've gone.

Dylan Morrill: 13:21

Where it's gone back and forth is I don't know if we're going to end up starting that church or if it's going to be more of like a acquisition type thing, where there's tons of churches that are on the decline and need some rejuvenation Um, and so I think that is a beautiful opportunity to um bring life and hope back to congregations that used to have it and maybe even have a space to gather for worship. And there's some beautiful older buildings um all across the country that are just for the lack of and I don't know. I guess Christianity as a whole um has sort of seen a decline um in the United States. Maybe not in every other country, but in the United States in particular, we've seen a decline, many people becoming unchurched, and partially that happened during the COVID pandemic. Many other factors go into that, but there's plenty of churches that need hope and need like fresh vision and a fresh leader to come in, and so we've absolutely considered that, versus just starting from the ground up.

Tammy Hershberger: 14:29

Yeah, and I think it's great that you're open to it because, I mean, I've had many plans that I thought this is going to be it and then something changed. You know God leads you a different direction but I think if you're faithful and honest and you're listening to him, he will guide you in the right steps. Sometimes it may seem like, wow, that was kind of a wide path to where I'm going, but I had something to learn there or something I had about myself that I had to fix. That got me ready for what he has for me the walk. So that's very cool, I think. Can I ask you and you can go wherever you want with that. But you were talking about, I do believe, churches are. A lot of them are slowly dying. Can I have your opinion Only because you are in ministry? You are a different generation than me. I'd be very curious what your answer is, if you're willing to share it.

Dylan Morrill: 15:12

Yeah, so part of the issue is not just within the realm of churches but it's holistically. We've seen kind of an individualist society arise in America. So there was a study that was actually done on bowling leagues and the decline of bowling leagues over time. As time has gone on, we've kind of seen this decline holistically in America of big group events and big group gatherings and so that has also struck the church. I think that also our culture is slowly becoming more secularized. I mean I struggle to call the United States like a Christian nation in its roots and its origins. I think they're heavily influenced by Christian values and over time people have either been hurt by the church and a lot of that is the church's fault in misrepresenting Jesus. There's been a lot of hypocrisy, a lot of hurt and some of the reasons that people walked away from church I think are absolutely valid. But then again some of it is that just group gatherings as a whole have gone down, that clubs have gone down.

Dylan Morrill: 16:34

And then I cannot neglect the reality that there's a spiritual battle as well and that the Apostle Paul in Ephesians writes that our battle is not against flesh and blood, but it's against spiritual powers, principalities and rulers in these high places. And so we have the spiritual battle to keep in mind. But oftentimes, when we see physically on the outside, where it feels like the church is losing foot and it feels like we're losing grounding in the spiritual realm, we're just on the doorstep of awakening and an outpouring of of the Lord's spirit. And so, um, like we look to other countries who have kind of faced similar things as we're facing now, um, and we and we could take it to extremes even like in China, where Christianity is totally illegal, um, and in public, in worship that is separated from the state, they have to go into underground churches and keep their worship extremely secret.

Dylan Morrill: 17:31

We've seen the church absolutely explode there and millions upon millions of Christians are coming to the faith. And the gospel is advancing, despite outwardly it looking hopeless. Despite outwardly it looking hopeless maybe our physical world realities are not always what is happening in the spiritual realm and so we see the gospel will prevail. Jesus promises that the church will always prevail, that the gates of hell will not stand against the church, and so the Lord is still building his church, the Lord is still faithful, but I think for some valid reasons, and then also just maybe walking away from from what people would consider an old way of thinking, which I don't know. It still has very, very real relevance today.

Tammy Hershberger: 18:23

Yeah, so I'm going to throw in my opinion of course, and I am not.

Tammy Hershberger: 18:25

I'm not in seminary, so, but I feel like and this has been my own personal experience, that's why I'm going to speak on it I feel like in the generations before us it was more tradition and like you know, I think in the fifties, where it was just very the way it was, and I feel like today we are searching for something different, I searching for something different. I think, you know, the culture is different, but for me, I find that and this is not judgmental and I'm not going to name religions, I don't care. I'm just saying in general, I feel like a lot of pastors and I put it on them because there are, you know, we're supposed to follow them they're preaching kind of a weak doctrine, a weak word, that like they don't tell you the power you have, and I've like it's hard, but just wait, jesus will help you. You know it's talk just like that, and I'm like I need something that's gonna help me, because sometimes I've been so depressed, sometimes, dylan, in my past that like I don't know if you listen to my podcast, it was horrible, I thought I was gonna kill myself and I was in such mental oppression and it was like at the end of the day, I didn't know that if I really dig into the word and I made excuses for it and I you know the world and myself to blame for like I'm too busy to get in the word, I don't have time today, and like I didn't open myself up to like really what God has for me.

Tammy Hershberger: 19:30

I was a believer and you know, I mean I'm not like some weak little thing, but at the end of the day I didn't open myself up to it. And I want, when I find preachers that are preaching it and they're powerful and you can tell they believe it and they're not, just, you know, 30 minute service and you're out, I think. Do you agree with that or you think I'm way crazy?

Dylan Morrill: 19:46

no, I I think that absolutely has validity um I. I think that is important to put the ball in the leader's hands. Um john maxwell is quote like everything rises and falls on leadership, um I think is absolutely true in and outside of the church. And so putting as much on the leaders, and to me that's not discouraging, but rather it's encouraging and makes me want to do better than maybe previous generations have done. But in the face of that, not all the leaders have been bad and there's been some tremendous leaders come throughout it.

Dylan Morrill: 20:26

One thing I would add is that I think maybe kind of touch base with what you said about like tradition is that it's more culturally acceptable to like go to church and to be a Christian and to like practice a faith, but maybe within the churches there was like a higher presence of people who actually like just did not believe and were just going through the motions, and so now maybe the decline has been people are tired of being fake and just don't want to put up with that kind of behavior anymore, and so maybe we've seen a decline of people in churches, but I don't know if we've seen a decline of true and genuine born again followers of jesus I think and this is my opinion again, but from what I watch and what I listen to, I think a revival is happening.

Tammy Hershberger: 21:12

I see it a lot, I mean in all, all of us. But like younger people especially, are I'm proud of them right now because they're they're not just going with like this, cancel culture and everything's bad, and you got to accept everything. And and I think that's the problem with some of the churches is they're putting like we're okay to accept this. Now you have to love those people. The Bible is very clear about that. But you don't have to accept it. You don't accept sin because they're harming themselves in it, they're hurting their spiritual life and people don't even realize what sin does to you. I mean, really we think, oh, just let me live, I live, I'm happy. I have uncles who tell me, oh, I'm gonna be so happy in hell and I'm like you're not buddy, like you are so disillusioned by that, and so can you speak to that at all? As far as with the youth firing them up, and what do you think's changing that?

Dylan Morrill: 21:52

yeah, especially since you're a youth guy yeah yeah, so I'm also part of gen z is my generation, yeah, gen z and then the up and coming, who are like being born and maybe like early elementary age, are Gen Alpha.

Dylan Morrill: 22:07

So there's there's not much out on them yet. But Gen Z and, speaking as a Gen Zer, we do not like fakeness and we don't put up with the BS very often. We crave true and genuine relationships. We want we want to be hit straight with it true and genuine relationships, we want to be hit straight with it. And so I think that kind of what you're alluding to is that, like you want to hear the word preached true and clear and with strength, authoritatively.

Dylan Morrill: 22:39

And so I think what people are recognizing, like our souls are longing for this, and people aren't finding satisfaction in any other avenue, and I've experienced this myself too, like whether it was sports, whether it was relationships or family, even I'm not finding the satisfaction that my soul craves and my soul desires.

Dylan Morrill: 23:03

And so when, um, you're faced with the truth and the reality of Jesus as a Gen Zer and they're hitting you straight, they're hitting you bluntly with it Uh, it's really attractive in, uh, I think it's it's drawing people in, um, and then, ultimately, I think that it's mounted on the prayers of the generations before us as well. And there's, just like so many prayer movements out there, there's this ministry I've been leaning into. It's called the 24-7 Prayer Movement, and they just hit 25 years of nonstop prayer, wow, day and night. They have schedule, and it's exploded into this worldwide movement where there is just people praying for prayer, for mission and for justice to come into the world, true and genuine Jesus centered justice, jesus centered mission. And so them, and they're just one of many ministries and one of many members of the church who are praying for things like this to happen. And so I think the Lord is faithful, he responds to prayer. He wants to answer prayer. He wants to bless the world through bringing new Christians.

Tammy Hershberger: 24:17

Yeah, no, I absolutely agree with you on that. I think, like you were saying, always searching for something. I think you're right on that, because that's where I was. I mean, you get in this society of like, more and more and more, and for me it was more businesses, bigger businesses, grow and double and all these things. And I think because you work for me, I mean I was always passionate about the people I love, the people that work for me and their family to me.

Tammy Hershberger: 24:40

And I, you know, I want to start realizing, like, when I got through so much burnout, I was like this is so, I'm not happy, I don't care how big this business is, it's not fun to me anymore. And to me I I think when I kind of just laid it on the table with the Lord and was like I don't know how to fix this anymore Cause we as humans try to fix it ourselves, and it's like it's, it's like a nightmare, I mean it just never stops because everything we try doesn't work. And so when you turn to the Lord and you get in his word and you just let it go to him every day, he got me through it and it got easier and easier and I got stronger and now I'm so excited for my quiet time. I get very serious about that, like when I first get up I'm going to spend time with the Lord. Because I'm quiet, I haven't thought about all the things I have to do.

Tammy Hershberger: 25:24

And at 41, I'm like, oh my gosh, I saw something in the Bible today that I put, you know, I put on Facebook for some of my friends to see, and I'm like this I never noticed that before and it's because I wasn't reading it for myself. And so, even though we talked about the pastors, it's important they teach the right thing. We as people also have to be willing to receive it, because I could sit there all day and not get a single thing you said because I'm not paying attention. I don't want to hear it. I'm doing my duty, you know.

Dylan Morrill: 25:42

Yeah, yeah, he who has ears to hear, let him hear. Jesus experienced it himself. Yeah, that people who are closed off to the message, like it's just not going to hit, it's not going to penetrate. This is coming from the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords, and so I think we can do our job. To be faithful. We can do our job, but faithful.

Tammy Hershberger: 26:07

We can do our job, um, but it only goes so far and then we have to put it into the Lord's hands. Yeah, I have some people in my life that I love dearly and I'm just like I. They don't getting it and I'm like I don't understand. We heard the same message. How did you not hear that? Like, how are you not so stoked about that and how do you feel like you? I mean, do you just literally have to? Well, see, I hate that. I just almost said just pray. Just pray is so powerful Like we almost get disillusioned that like just pray for them. But that is really where our power is, cause there's not much else we can do Right as a pastor or anything, does it? Do you see it any different of how to reach them or what to do?

Dylan Morrill: 26:37

So I think there is an extent of what we can do. So just one example one of my best friends maybe my best friend from high school, the guy who first invited me to go to youth group he experienced some really tough mental health issues for his freshman year of college. He actually had to go away to this mental health camp I don't know what to call it exactly for a few months. In that camp he really got a grip on his mental health, but his faith kind of faded away. And so when he came back, like while he was gone was when I had my experience and my encounter with Jesus and I was looking forward to sharing that with him like so, so excited, and just seeing where he was at in his faith was absolutely crushing.

Dylan Morrill: 27:23

And so he is a really interesting case because he believes that historically, jesus rose from the dead, and to me I'm like, ok, if you believe that happened historically, then it's just like from there the dominoes fall and all that Jesus claimed about himself and his kingdom is true and therefore you should put your trust and your hope in him. Um, and so he did that, but he wants to live for himself and his, his own desires, in his own way, and so I, him and I, have had like countless conversations. Um, actually, my so my bachelor party before I got married, my main focus was to get all my friends who were there, who were non-Christians, to become Christians.

Dylan Morrill: 28:11

Um, so I spent like the whole time just like talking about Jesus and um just just going for it in that realm and him and I like talked for so many hours on that trip and yet he just came away with with nothing. And so I have been very firm with him, very persistent with him, uh, very faithful in my witness to him, and it's just gone nowhere. And so I think it gets to a point where I'm not going to put my time and energy and having a conversation with you who are unreceptive, and so I'm going to try and find somebody who will listen and who has ears to hear the message. And so he's always at the top of my prayer list and I always persist in prayer and I've seen the Lord move powerfully through prayers we've already talked about, but just another quick example. So I read this book last year. It's called Praying Like Monks, living Like Fools.

Dylan Morrill: 29:10

I absolutely recommend. It Transformed my mind on prayer, but the author of it his name is Tyler Staton and he shares the story of him in seventh grade and his youth pastor challenged him to go and find out the power prayer for himself. And so what he did? He took his little directory and he prayed for each of his classmates every day over the summer and he saw like a mini revival break out in his middle school. And so I'm no longer in school in person, but I'm a youth minister. And so I went to Central High School alongside my wife and some of our other youth leaders and we prayer walked Central High School countless times.

Dylan Morrill: 29:52

And so September of last year, one of our youth kids who had absolutely strayed very far from the Lord had got mixed up into some crazy things. He experienced some deliverance with my senior pastor and from there he was just emboldened to go into his school and preach the gospel. He was ditching class to preach to his friends Most of the time. I'm not pro-ditching class, but if that's the case, then go for it. And so our church is like a mid-sized church it's not very big that next Sunday we had over, I think, 60 high schoolers at our service and we had baptisms for over a month, every single week and so just one kid started it.

Dylan Morrill: 30:42

One kid started it and that kid in particular seemed hopeless. But I also seemed hopeless at a point in my life and my friends and mentors had prayed for me, and so that's like the back layer behind my story and my experience with Jesus is there's people praying for me literally at the time where I encountered the Lord, where it seemed to be as far away as possible from him. Christian friends had reached out to me and tried to call me out of that, and the day before that I told Summer, who's now my wife. She said that God has so much more in store for me than the way I was living. I told her I'm not changing anytime soon. And the Lord? I just imagine him chuckling up in heaven, knowing what was ahead the next day and knowing what was to come after that. But I think in these times of hopelessness, seemingly to us, we just trust in the Lord's faithfulness. We turn to him and we turn to him in faith.

Tammy Hershberger: 31:46

Ultimately, yeah, I think that's really good. I mean, it gives me hope listening to you, cause it makes me sad for them, cause I'm like I just want them to get it, you know, and I used to like drag people by the neck like come on and they just they don't want to do it. But I also think about on the other side of that, like when they do have that revelation. Is it Zoll or Paul in the bible? He got paul, yeah, yeah, he got. He was killing christians, right and god met him?

Tammy Hershberger: 32:07

did he blind him? I can't remember the whole thing.

Dylan Morrill: 32:09

And I mean he became amazing apostle right yeah, he wrote 13 of the 27 books in the new testament so this is a bad dude and like god just met him right in the middle and it wasn't like he was searching for it, he was hungry for it, I mean.

Tammy Hershberger: 32:22

So I think about that and you know my friends aren't that bad, but I'm like I. Any minute they can, god can, and that's what I pray is for god to reach in and touch their heart that they cannot deny him, and like they get so and even if it's something tough on them that they have to get to that bottom so they can find him.

Tammy Hershberger: 32:37

Because I think then what is that testimony going to be for some of these people that I know that are struggling, and when they find the lord and get that freedom? What how emboldened, like you said, they're going to give for the lord and one person can reach 60.

Tammy Hershberger: 32:48

I mean like yeah we all have our own realm of influence and who we touch maybe you can't touch because you don't know these people. And it's exciting for me to know that and so it does give me hope and courage, like pray for them. You know, if they ever reach out to me, the ones that aren't speaking to me right now, like I'll love on you because I the bible is very clear about that and your point is good but I wasn't always who I was. I used to be pretty negative. I was I'll cut you off, no problem, you know, and the lord has changed me so much and I think we forget about that. Yeah, like we were a mess at one time, you know, and thankfully the grace of god is the only thing that kept me away from addiction yeah I have some of that, my family, and it's scary to me, but I wouldn't be here without him.

Dylan Morrill: 33:26

So yeah, me, me too me neither, and so just extending the same grace that we've been given and the same grace that has saved us will sustain us yeah, that's really good, dylan, I can see why you're called to this.

Tammy Hershberger: 33:42

um. Do you mind if I flip gears for a second and ask you just if there's anyone out there that's listening in? Like this dylan guy is cool, I want to do what he's doing so in the ministry school. Can you tell me what's it like? Maybe a quick lesson on what you learn? What you, because I think, do you just learn the Bible? What do you learn?

Dylan Morrill: 33:55

No, so I think that would be the main perception that people would have is, like, ok, like our only textbook is the Bible yeah, the Bible, um, but I also have to do like regular classes, um, so I, I, I, for my degree, it's required to do all this pretty much all the same regular classes that other people would have to do, like math, um, science, um, history, so all those like classic core classes um, I'm still required for my degree, and so then once I get into my degree track so it's kind of similar to typical college, it's like you're required to do those things. And then, once you begin your degree track, then you get to actually do the classes that, like, you're excited about and you want to do, yeah, um, and so mine are broken down into like degree specific, and then there's theology classes, and then there are leadership classes, and so I can take a certain amount of electives, and then there's like some required classes for each of those. And so the Bible I think we can maybe oversimplify it at times, but it's like a very complex piece of literature. It's written by over 40 authors, it's a collection of 66 books written on three different continents over the span of 1500 years, and so there is like a ton of culture and a ton of history and a ton of just study surrounding into the different cultures and religions at the time, the different influences that there might be on the authors and some of the things they're referencing and quoting and the places that they're going, and so there is like just a whole other world of studying that goes into like pulling apart the layers.

Dylan Morrill: 35:40

I think in general the Bible is understandable, but then there's like a different layer that you can get to um, a different level of understanding that like just unlocks in your mind when you understand that this book that I'm reading had a different original audience, and so like trying to put your mind in the mind of the original audience and so what did this mean to them? And then from there it's like what is the Lord trying to speak through this scripture? Is there like a universal truth I can pull from it, like what is this the principle and how can I translate this ancient truth into the modern day? And so there's been, like I've had Old Testament survey class. I've gone through every single book of the Old Testament, new Testament, survey, hermeneutics, which is the art of studying the Bible.

Dylan Morrill: 36:34

I'll take a homiletics class which is like preaching, because that's an essential part of ministry. Cultural anthropology is a required course, so understanding how different cultures function and work and how to best reach people who are different from you is a required course. So understanding how different cultures function and work, um, and, and how to best reach people who are different from you, um, so there's like a very vast range, and then like systematic theology, biblical theology and just getting into the nitty gritty and, um, I nerd out on it and absolutely love it, but for some people it's like what are these crazy words that this dude is saying?

Tammy Hershberger: 37:10

I think it sounds fascinating. I mean to really understand. Like you said, it was written at a different time but it can still apply to all the things happening and the different cultures, and what they were going through is maybe different than us, but it still applies. I have to ask because I'm a business person. Do they teach you any kind of business stuff, Because and I don't mean this at all bad, but like business, churches are a business they have to pay their bills, so do they teach you that side too as well.

Dylan Morrill: 37:31

Yeah, so I actually go to the same school that my pastor went to, and he went many years ago and something that he told them they wish they had was more of like the practical leadership in ministry and like more of the administrative type classes, and so now that this school is more established, they do have some of those classes and so, um, I actually had you do a video interview and it was for an organizational leadership class.

Dylan Morrill: 37:58

So it wasn't like church leadership specifically, uh, but we went through and learned about, like, several types of leadership and, uh, the book we use. I have a friend who she was doing her master's over at cmu and it was the same exact book that we used for ours, uh, a bible college, as they're using um at a secular university, um. So I think those principles were very important. And then I also took a church administration class, um, that kind of walk through some of those specifics, and I've also had a lot of hands-on experience with that, like being on our board, um and just dealing with the reality that there are bills that we need to pay Um, and like operating as a nonprofit in the United States, or like regulations that we have to meet and keep um records that we have to keep Um, and there's a ton that goes into it.

Tammy Hershberger: 38:51

Yeah, well, I'm glad that they teach you all that. It does sound interesting. Um, how long is it? Two year program, or how long?

Dylan Morrill: 38:57

It's a four year bachelor's. Oh, bachelor's. You said yeah.

Tammy Hershberger: 38:59

Okay, and your school's here locally or you online? No, I'm online, so yeah, my school is in North Carolina.

Dylan Morrill: 39:05

It's called Manna University, okay, yep, and as far as Bible colleges go, they have like incredible online program and it's one of the more affordable universities.

Tammy Hershberger: 39:15

So how are you led to that? Did the I mean obviously the Lord showed it to you, or did you know about this at some point?

Dylan Morrill: 39:20

So when considering initially like even before I knew Linda Kemp was around, um, I had looked into their programs and my pastor had some influence in where I went and so like, but I think what ultimately sealed the deal was just like how solid their online program was and I knew I wasn't going to move anywhere. Uh, definitely feel called to Grand Junction.

Tammy Hershberger: 39:43

So what has been the most challenging aspect of your study so far.

Dylan Morrill: 39:48

I think it is definitely the management of time, because I have a full-time job, basically in full-time ministry, have a couple of different roles at the church am a absolutely full-time husband, have incredible community, still have family that I'm in contact with and full-time student. So how do you manage all that? Um, barely, uh. It's the honest answer, but something I learned from Craig Rochelle, who is a pastor and has an incredible leadership podcast is to schedule based on your values and your priorities.

Dylan Morrill: 40:28

And so I went through and basically built a schedule for myself, and the first thing I put on there is time with my wife. Absolutely value that. I think I actually put time with God on there first, then time with my wife, so we have a date night every single week. So we're prioritizing that. We do a lot of our ministry together, which is awesome, but just like time that's separate from that, that's not work focused. And so I went through and built a schedule based on my priorities and so I basically like forced myself to do things at different times and sometimes life gets crazy and gets in the way and things slip away and, um, luckily, a lot of my professors are are very gracious when those things happen, and so I've been able to get through it. But, looking back, maybe I need to take a little bit less classes every now and then, but it's it's good and I get through it and absolutely live a fulfilling life.

Tammy Hershberger: 41:30

I think that's absolutely important to you especially. I should get older and then eventually you have kids. I mean, we talked about that a ton here. Every I would say pretty much every business owner I've talked to other than one young kid who still he's like walkers, mobile detailing yes, good friend he's great, but I'm like he's still young, it hasn't. You know. He doesn't have a husband or a wife, or hey he just got engaged.

Dylan Morrill: 41:49

Oh, did he?

Tammy Hershberger: 41:50

yeah, I didn't know that he details my car. Wait till I see him. That's fantastic anyway. So for me it's like you have to watch the burnout. You have to watch doing too much, because it just businesses especially that's who my audience was. It just it's a beast man. It takes over your life. And for me, because I work with my husband, same thing. I see him all day at work, but it's we don't. We've been bad about the date nights and with him 23 years and I'm like, well, I know you you'll be there, but that's not fair, cause I'm like he's told me that in the past like I'm sick of work. It sounds like you've got it right and I'm sure the Lord will kind of help direct you Because if you listen to him he will show you these are areas you're going to watch out for, but I was going to ask you do they have any like internship or hands on?

Tammy Hershberger: 42:35

Do you go out and like? Because I have a Jonas that works for me. His brother, Dennis, is going to Revival Today's Bible school and so they have to do so many outreach programs, and does your program require that at all?

Dylan Morrill: 42:51

So there is an internship that is offered that you can do like on site, but as an online student how they kind of keep us accountable is you either have to do like one per semester, you have to do like one missions project or you need to be regularly serving at your church which is what you and so mine gets taken care of like very easily yeah um, just by how I'm living my life and doing things.

Tammy Hershberger: 43:16

So is it, um, is there pressure going into what you're doing? I've talked to a lot of ministers kids and they're like, oh, it was hard. You know it was a lot of pressure, we had to be perfect. And do you feel that at all? Becoming what you're going to be as a minister or a traveling minister, whatever it is you end up doing do you feel pressure at all?

Dylan Morrill: 43:33

For parenting a little bit I'm like so excited to be a father.

Tammy Hershberger: 43:39

Nothing yet right.

Dylan Morrill: 43:40

No news, yet no news yet, but, yeah, I cannot wait to be a father. I'm so excited for it. I think that my pastor has done like an absolutely phenomenal job in raising kids Hands down the best parent I know. Another mentor of mine has also done an incredible job of raising just like true and genuine godly kids who love the Lord. And so I have some great men and women who have gone before me and have done a great job parenting to learn from and to get tips on. My parents did a phenomenal job raising me, but I have in my life Like I don't know. It gives me a little bit of confidence in like, in hopefulness that, like Summer and I, summer's, my wife, will raise some absolutely incredible kids.

Tammy Hershberger: 44:36

Yeah, I think what I've seen and this is just my opinion, but it seems like the ones that struggled a lot their parents. They were traveling ministers and they were just gone a lot and I understand they're doing the Lord's work, but I don't. I believe that you can still spend time with your family and, like when you are home, be very involved with them you know, because quality time is more important than just time.

Dylan Morrill: 44:54

Yeah, and that's something that our pastor has demonstrated phenomenally well is that, in addition to having a full date day, they have a whole family day, um, and so family is always prioritized, um, and he's modeled really well that our family is our first ministry, and so, whether that's just my wife and I prioritize that relationship, and then whether it's him and his kids or other pastors on our staff, family always comes first.

Tammy Hershberger: 45:21

Yeah, I used to talk to Eric about that because at the time he had three of his own and Charmaine, I think, had three, and that sounds right, and two I, I don't know, but it's a lot. And so I would always tell him, like I know you're working Monday through Friday, but you have the nights, you have weekends and the kids are in school and then you know some days he would take off to spend with them. But I'm like it's so important when you're there, be present. You know, don't be on your phone, don't be texting, don't be on facebook, because you're present but you're not there and to me, that is more important than just having someone around that's ignoring you all day.

Tammy Hershberger: 45:50

So, yeah, what about you, as a man does? Do you feel pressure, as, like I, have to be an excellent pastor.

Dylan Morrill: 45:55

I'm a perfectionist, so I struggle with that, but yeah, I I think there are standards that I must uphold and I I don't necessarily know if I feel pressure, but I guess a deep responsibility to do these things and to live a specific way. But ultimately, jesus says that his yoke is easy and his burden is light, and so I found a lot of joy in following him and living as he desires us to live. His commandments are not burdensome, but they actually produce life and bring life to us. So, as a pastor, I think that I could, like a lot of people can, feel that this necessity to be fake and conceal things. But the standard for us is not perfection, but it's living to the best of our abilities and as close to these qualifications that we can as possible. And so in doing so, there's always going to be times where we fall short in some certain area of life, as we are not yet perfected, as we're not Jesus, and so in doing that, I think it has um opened my mind to vulnerability, and so I actually meet with a group of guys every single week and we confess sins to one another and we pray for each other, um, and we're just super open, honest and vulnerable.

Dylan Morrill: 47:21

Uh, because a lot of these like big failures that happen in pastors don't start off as big failures, but they're these smaller things that have gone unchecked for years and years and years and then they explode into this huge thing, and so I'm trying to cut off these little things at the source, get them out in the open while they need to be, and so very vulnerable, very open Again. I have some incredible spiritual leaders who have gone before me and modeled this, and when there has been things I've needed to talk to them about, they've been open, honest with me and shown me grace. So I do think it could possibly get to a point where it's too problematic and pastors have to step down. That's just a reality. It's a very unfortunate reality, but I'm doing the best I can to prevent that from ever being a reality for us.

Tammy Hershberger: 48:12

Yeah, no, I do get that. I mean it's unfortunate some things that come out, but I'm like I try to remember they're human beings. I mean they're still imperfect men. I mean I know the Lord can grant you a lot of grace and help you and guide you, but we're people and we make mistakes and to just be so unforgiving is hard for me.

Tammy Hershberger: 48:28

I forgive quick if you apologize and you mean it Talking about what you were saying? As far as the standards you seem like, from what I've known of you you always seem like an upright kind of guy and I think that comes from probably how your parents raised you the Lord and then, like you said, being authentic and genuine. People in your congregation are going to feel that from you when you're pastoring them, because you can tell if someone's kind of full of it or if they're just saying it here. But you see them later and they act different, you know.

Dylan Morrill: 48:51

Yeah, you can do it for you can. You can be fake for so long before it just spills out.

Tammy Hershberger: 48:56

Yeah, and the longer you get to know someone, the more real it becomes. What about, um, I think the support you were saying is excellent. Uh, as a guy, I think I agree with you and that's probably true for even you, just as dylan, the man right like, have a support group, have buddies that you can talk to. I like having real people in my life that are like they're honest, they don't have to be mean, but they could be like you're messing up kind of right now, or what you said was really not right, or whatever, so that way you don't just have yes, men around you because, yeah, I don't think that's good no, not at all yeah okay, um, do you have anything else to add on that part before we move to the next one?

Dylan Morrill: 49:30

um, yeah, I think it's interesting. So just back to like the confessing aspect, um, james, chapter 5, verse 16, says confess your sins to one another so that you may be healed, for the prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective. And so it's really interesting how god says for our healing, for our forgiveness, confess to. God says for our healing, for our forgiveness, confess to him, but for our healing, confess to one another. And so it's again just emphasizing the essential nature of living in godly community. And so church for me, and I think biblically, extends far beyond Sundays, but it's living in community throughout the week, prioritizing those kingdom relationships in and out, no matter what.

Tammy Hershberger: 50:10

Yeah, I was reading Ephesians 4 today and it was talking about how we shouldn't fight with each other and we need to stay united. And it talked about how we are all a part of the body of.

Tammy Hershberger: 50:18

Christ and we all have a special job to do. It's so important because I think the devil likes us to fight and division. Today, everywhere, everybody has so much division and it's like we just need to love each other and watch out for each other, and we may not all agree, but sometimes, I think that's where amazing things happens and we don't agree, we get some innovation that comes out of that, you know. So I think that's important. So, if you're listening, I'm going to talk about this at the end. But what is enjoy church?

Dylan Morrill: 50:47

You said right and you're in grand junction. Yep, enjoy church in grand junction. We're off seventh and grand. We share a building with first baptist church beautiful old building. It's the oldest church building in grand junction actually. Um, yeah, I serve as our kids pastor and youth pastor and our board of elders credible church of just people trying to follow jesus as best as we can yeah, do you guys have a like?

Tammy Hershberger: 51:07

do you do YouTube or on Facebook? Do you go live or anything?

Dylan Morrill: 51:10

Our live stream is very poor.

Tammy Hershberger: 51:13

It's just in a Facebook group.

Dylan Morrill: 51:15

We're working on it. It's in progress.

Tammy Hershberger: 51:16

That'd be great for anyone not listening Come in person, if you can. Yeah.

Dylan Morrill: 51:20

If you're in Grand Junction, we'd love to have you.

Tammy Hershberger: 51:29

Love show? Okay, because I do have. I mean, I have a lot of listeners that are from minnesota and they travel in with their trailers and all this stuff and so I'm like they're always traveling and driving and so I'm like, oh, we should anytime I can get someone to listen online or something great.

Dylan Morrill: 51:34

But yes, I agree, come if my husband and actually jonas were there yesterday oh, no, yeah they stopped by, and when they come to check it out, I was serving with the kids, so okay they saw your wife.

Tammy Hershberger: 51:43

They know she was there. Uh, she got promoted to the financials or whatever it's called yeah, so very cool. Can I ask you a couple more questions before we move on?

Dylan Morrill: 51:52

Yeah.

Tammy Hershberger: 51:52

So I do want to get into leadership, but this kind of pertains to that For criticism or conflict within your team or your congregation. How would you and maybe you don't even fully have the answer because you're still in- school, but how? Would you handle that? You don't even fully have the answer because you're still in school, but how would you handle that? Because that applies to business? How do we handle that stuff, especially in a godly way?

Dylan Morrill: 52:10

yeah, so I. I think who is giving the criticism a lot of times matters, um, and so people who are really close to me. I welcome their criticism and will check my life and check myself very easily and without much fighting back, and that has taken a lot of work. I tend to be a very like not not too emotional of a person and so, like, very logically minded, if you're going to point out something and it makes sense to me that that's the way it is, I'm not going to put up too much fight. Yet I also love being right, and so there might be some fight back there. But with those people who are closest to me, those leaders who are above me, I am going to be very receptive of their feedback, and what works best for me in those situations is like very direct, blunt feedback, even if it like could come across mean or harmful to other people like I. I love it, I thrive off it. I always have, uh, the coaches growing up who coached me um, in sports, the the stricter ones I always loved and everyone else hated them, um, but so those people absolutely gonna welcome it. Um, I guess you just like back it up a layer, like if it's people who I like are somewhat acquaintances and they're saying stuff and they're bold enough to bring it to me. I'm absolutely going to consider it, um. And then there are just some people in the world who are haters, um, and they're going to come at you for some things that might be valid or or they might not be, and so, um, if I don't even really know them, I'm going to bring it to my community, live with great community, so great relationships. Bring to my leaders, if it's specifically in the church context, and ask them if there's like any validity with it. And if there's not, then I'm not going to take it to heart. Really, I'm going to try and move on from it, try and brush it off. But when it comes to conflict, I think that conflict is best dealt with with us, like being direct and bringing it to people. But that's not like an excuse for being rude or doing it in a harmful way. Excuse for being rude or doing it in a harmful way.

Dylan Morrill: 54:30

In Matthew, chapter 18, jesus kind of gives us some guidelines behind, like when a brother sins against you. So he says to first go to that person, one-on-one talk to them and then if what you confront them with. They don't listen, then bring another person with you the next time who has also experienced whatever area they've fallen short in. And if they don't listen, then bring the elders with you. And if they still don't listen, then the guideline it sounds kind of harsh, but it's to deal with them as they're an unbeliever, and so I think, to some extent, jesus' heart is always reconciliation. It's always to bring that person back. But if they're going to fight what you're trying to bring to them, if they're going to fight the correction, the accountability that you're going to hold them to, then that's where you really fall short.

Dylan Morrill: 55:19

And then I guess, speaking more on this topic, some people will say like well, aren't Christians like not supposed to judge at all? And Jesus says he does not say to not judge at all, but he says to judge rightly and not to judge hypocritically. And so I think that's an area of the church has fallen short is like we have been very hypocritical, um, and that's driven so many people away, and so we're allowed to hold one another accountable, um, in first Corinthians, chapter five, the apostle Paul is talking about holding believers accountable. But then, when we're looking to the world, he says like what, what would you expect? They don't know Jesus? Uh, they don't love Jesus, like that's what we are to expect is that they would not be following him.

Dylan Morrill: 56:07

And so judgment to the outsider is should not necessarily I mean, there's certain circumstances like absolutely step in if someone's life is in danger or if it's really harmful, but ultimately, like we should live to build up the body of Christ and call each other out and hold each other accountable, cause, as you, as you mentioned earlier a lot of times we just don't recognize how harmful the sin is in our life. Um, and God's not just calling things sin because he doesn't like him, but he wants what's best for us and living his way and is what brings us the fullness of joy and is what brings us the life that is truly life well, when you look at a lot of that sin and it's like the, you know it may bring you temporary pleasure, but I'm like you're gonna sit in guilt or yeah all these things that happen and you don't even know it and I mean, I know a lot of people with addiction problems and I'm like, come on, man, like you, it feels good at the moment, but then you're hung over, you don.

Tammy Hershberger: 57:02

You don't feel good the next day, you've destroyed your relationships with your family, your friends, whatever. And it's like the Lord wants you to rise above that, not because he's like, don't have any fun. There's so much grossness and sadness and depression in that and yeah, I think it's. It's to me, when I have people in that in my life that are open to saying like this that no-transcript for me, and I know who you are and I know your character, it's hard to take advice from someone that's living not a very clean life yeah, so I'm like what are you talking about?

Tammy Hershberger: 57:40

I mean um? What's that saying about? Don't stick a log in your yeah or something.

Dylan Morrill: 57:45

So don't take the speck out of your brother's eye. Um, until you take the log out of your own eye yeah it's essentially what jesus is saying in matthew chapter 7 yeah, which I do believe.

Tammy Hershberger: 57:56

The lord cleans your life up as you go and I think a lot of people think that they have to be clean to get into church, but it's like come dirty, you know, and if I have a better way to say that.

Dylan Morrill: 58:04

But come in, man, and he'll clean you up yep, so jesus, he I think it's mark chapter two, it's somewhere else, in a different gospel as well, uh.

Dylan Morrill: 58:13

But he says it is not the healthy who need the doctor, but the sick. For I did not come to call the righteous but to call sinners, and I think the what he's saying there is that we all need to recognize that we are sick and in need of a Savior before we can enter into his kingdom. If we think that we're righteous and we got it on our own, or even if we think we're too messy to be healed by the healer of healers, the king of kings. He came for those people specifically. The King of Kings, he came for those people specifically. He centered his life around reaching people who were unlikely to be reached by the culture and the religion at the time because they thought they were too good. So I think when we recognize that we're broken and we cannot do it on our own, it's honestly a better position to be in to receive Christ than thinking you got it yourself.

Tammy Hershberger: 59:08

Yeah, I mean he touched the lepers he ate with sinners. I mean that's his people, because that's who needed him. If you think about it and I think that's also part of I'm probably going to catch the flack for this but the older churches that are older generation, there's not a lot of life in it. If I would say that it's because they they've got him and they don't need him and they don't really do much outreach and I'm like, but you guys got him, someone else still needs him. You know that's your job now. You found him. Now go help get others saved and free, you know?

Dylan Morrill: 59:32

yeah, yeah a lot of um. There's this pastor who leads an organization called practicing the way. Absolutely recommend digging into the resources, uh. But he has summed up discipleship to Jesus in these three broader categories. And so it's to be with Jesus, to become like Jesus and to do as he did. And so we all enter into this relationship with Jesus at ground zero. In God's eyes, we are righteous, we've been made right. We are cleansed by the blood of Jesus. In God's eyes, we are righteous, we've been made right, we are cleansed by the blood of Jesus.

Dylan Morrill: 1:00:07

But there's this battle between our new nature and our old nature. We're still in the flesh, but we're filled with the Holy Spirit. So Galatians 5 expounds on this, talking about like the fruits of the Spirit and not walking in the flesh and gratifying the desires of our flesh, but rather seeking to walk and live in the Spirit. And so there's this constant tension and this constant battle, and all of this while we're being transformed in the image of Christ, becoming more and more like Him. And so that's part of living here on earth now is this spiritual formation into the likeness of Jesus, becoming like him, doing the things that he did, being with him, just prioritizing that, and that, first and foremost, we see that Jesus constantly went to be with the Father and prioritize that time with him.

Dylan Morrill: 1:00:56

And you're like, bro, jesus did that, like how much more do I have to do that? And so be with Jesus, become like Jesus. And then it's not necessarily like a solid flow, but kind of so be with him, become like him and then go and do as he did. And we see that he is constantly others focused. He's never once focused on himself, but he's. How can I help the next person? How can I love my neighbor and like? Love your neighbor as yourself is to like I think we're naturally selfish a lot of the time and so we're self-seeking and to love your neighbor as yourself is quit loving yourself and spend that love on your neighbor and in those around you yeah, it's that agape kind of love yes, yeah um, I forgot I was gonna say about that.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:01:44

Uh, I just think back to myself. I'm like I I got, I don't even know. I was in my 20s then I got saved and I wasn't living this crazy, horrible life, but I just was like whatever. And I was actually getting kind of demonized by these horrible nightmares and these depression. Anxiety was starting to hit and so it just kind of I took you know jesus, my lord and savior, at my kitchen table with my friend telling me, and then I went on and I started to realize like I don't even I couldn't say one specific moment changed my life, but like over time I became less pessimistic.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:02:10

I'm now an optimist. I believe there's so much good in life. And I remember one time ACDC was coming into Salt Lake and I lived in Wyoming and I was like I have to go to that and my friend Dan Miller was like I wouldn't go to that and he wasn't being judgmental. But he was like I'm just not into that anymore and I was like I thought to myself, what if he wasn't being judgmental? But in my mind I was like what a judgmental prick I was. Like I think I literally said I will never not go to that today. I have no interest in that. I mean, I like the music. The words are terrible, you know, highway to hell, mistress for Christmas, not good. And I think to myself like that just naturally changed for me Now.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:02:45

I love worship music and I remember one time I was such a mental. I had a friend who was loving God in the senior year of high school and I was like she's weird. And I remember we were out canoeing and drinking and she comes down with her Christian church or whatever and they're singing God songs. I remember thinking like, oh my gosh, she's coming, don't hide, she see us. And now I'm like I was. I'm proud of her for that at that age. But I think it just changes you so much over time. It's not one moment and I don't remember it being beaten in my head. It was just showing up for god every day.

Dylan Morrill: 1:03:13

Yep yep, and that that's how it happens is consistency over a long time. Uh, eugene peterson, who authored the message version of the bible, okay, he has a quote that discipleship is long obedience in the same direction, and so that's exactly what you've experienced, tammy, is that putting in the work, day by day, piece by piece, coming to the Lord with open hands. His spirit is absolutely going to work in us, it's absolutely going to transform us and again, he's faithful.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:03:43

Yeah, he's very faithful. And you think you said being obedient. You're being obedient to something. Either you know meditating in the devil and the bad things, or you're obedient to drinking all the time, or you're obedient to doing whatever you want, or you can put it to something that actually can change your life. That's why I bring you on, because I want people to hear this stuff. Like it's not just one guy saying it, it's all of us who were not perfect people. We still are not and we're still trying. And we're still trying to redeem ourselves, but we realize that we are redeemed through Christ. Like we don't have to earn it, we just have to show up every day. That's how I see it. I mean, maybe that's wrong, but okay.

Dylan Morrill: 1:04:17

Love it.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:04:18

Uh, we're getting to the end here. Um, I want to ask you on this as far as leaders, how do you feel it's best to empower your people from your perspective?

Dylan Morrill: 1:04:29

Yeah, I think so. My leadership is specifically within the church. It can kind of be applied elsewhere, though, I think.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:04:36

I guarantee it can.

Dylan Morrill: 1:04:38

So, for my leaders, something that I've tried to do is empower them in their different giftings, and so one of my best friends is one of my youth leaders and I've let him try teaching before. I have a pretty strong teaching gifting. My wife has like one of the most insane teaching giftings ever. She's incredible. But let him teach before and without, like, just being blunt. Blunt, he did not do very well.

Dylan Morrill: 1:05:07

But you stick him in a tough situation with anyone. He is going to help walk them through that. He is going to help love them through that. He is maybe the best relationship builder I've ever met. You throw him into a room and he'll come out with like 50 friends Um, absolutely incredible.

Dylan Morrill: 1:05:28

Has been empowered by God to just love people through relationships and help them through tough situations. And so, um, I don't utilize him for teaching but, like I have a tough situation, I have somebody that who's an outlier in our youth ministry, like a student who really needs somebody. I'm going to like I think I do decent in those situations, but this dude does incredibly well and so I'm going to have him step up and lead in that area. If there are other leaders who have different strengths and different weaknesses. We're going to work through those and we're going to have a place and a space for them to lead and step up in. And our youth ministry is a little bit different than your typical youth ministry, where our main focus is actually on, like, smaller groups, and so this kind of takes the focus off, like the one leader, and it gives our other leaders opportunities to speak into the lives of our students and to um it really empowers them to be influential in their lives. So we we have pretty high standards for our leaders.

Dylan Morrill: 1:06:31

Um I basically only invite leaders in to join our ministry. Um, like, we don't have like an open application or anything. But if I see something in somebody and I invite them in to be our leader, then um, it's hopefully honorable to them, because we do not choose um sparingly. So we or I guess we do choose sparingly.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:06:56

Yeah.

Dylan Morrill: 1:06:57

Um, so yeah, just like releasing them in their giftings, and so that's not always easy, um, you have to sit with them, you have to experiment, um, and sometimes you're going to see them fall on their face, and that's okay, cause we're all going to learn from it. We're all going to learn our different strengths and weaknesses. Um, and then also big Craig Rochelle guy, like something that he said and I think he stole it from somebody else, but it's like when somebody can do something like 70% as well, as you like, give it to them to do.

Dylan Morrill: 1:07:28

And just the art of delegation, which is also very biblical, like we see in Exodus, chapter 18, moses's father-in-law is. He tells him, he says what you're doing is not good, and then he gives them like very detailed instructions of how to delegate his leadership throughout the people of Israel and empower other leaders. Um, and so I think, the more that I can give away and gift people to do, as long as it's in their gifting, um, as long as you're doing decently well at it, then they have the room to grow and transform into an exceptional leader. And it really, I don't know. The math of the kingdom of God is multiplication, absolutely. It's not just addition, it's multiplying. I think you mentioned earlier, like you save one person and then that one person can reach 60 more.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:08:19

They become your army. I mean truly Well, and I like that because, see, I'm telling you this all applies. I mean I takeathan schell's worth stuff all the time and I'm like this is absolutely he's having ministry stuff. And I'm like this is business too, because we have to be good leaders and know what our people. Maybe you hired someone and they're not good at that position, yeah, but you find a better position and so they.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:08:36

There's a saying find the right people, get them on the bus and get them in the right seats. And being I feel like that's good because the Lord can give you the wisdom of like, this guy's not quite great at this, but he's so much better at this so I can move him to that spot. You know, sometimes it's harder in business. You might have to keep them there for a minute until you can figure it out. But and then also, like you said, your guy he's he's an attractor. Basically, he's going to attract people. He put him out there and let him talk to people and people get excited and come hang out and come to your church, and so I think that's a great, that was really great.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:09:06

Thank you, dylan, you're so smart. You make me like dumb on this. I'm like dude. You don't even need me to just keep talking.

Dylan Morrill: 1:09:15

I love it.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:09:15

Thank you, um, I want to ask a couple of questions on leadership and I have one more thing for you. So I think you already talked about Christlike leadership, but do you, do you understand, for the business side, why I want this podcast? Because I want people to see like you don't have to be afraid. Corporate makes it so scary to bring God into your business. You almost can't. So in our small businesses we can do that. Now. I'm not going to discriminate against you.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:09:31

I've had non-believers and whatever, but they don't tend to stay because they don't love what we believe in. You know the way we are, but I think we can use that to promote people, help promote the gospel, I mean. That's why I always told you guys in our meetings like, don't push your religion on people, but if people want to talk to you about it, absolutely talk to them.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:09:48

I am so cool with that and, look at, god blessed you with that, and so we need businesses like mine, like people to go out that are listening, that are believers, to get out there and be strong and hire those believers and help. I mean, I'm happy to only have you for whatever time I did, because you had something else God had for you, and I never get sad when people leave me because they're going to go start their business or they're going to do something else or they're going into ministry, because that means I'm helping them get to where they're supposed to be. Find your purpose.

Dylan Morrill: 1:10:13

Yeah, I think you're touching on a very important concept, and so I think a lot of times we can see ministry as just for a special group of specific people, the people on the stage on Sunday. Like that's who ministry is for. You referenced Ephesians, chapter 4 earlier, which is actually pertinent to this, and verses 11 and 12 say Christ gave the apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors and teachers. And then the Apostle Paul goes on to say for what purpose? And it is to equip the saints for the work of ministry. And so it doesn't say that those people go and do the ministry. It's not all the pastors doing the ministry, but rather our role and our job is to equip followers of Jesus to go out into the world and to do ministry in their various workplaces Jesus to go out into the world and to do ministry in their various workplaces.

Dylan Morrill: 1:11:07

And sometimes, like I've been in ministry for a few years now, I have seen people who've, like thought they were called to ministry just because they, like read their Bible every day and like are somewhat interested in theology. But they also are, like, very gifted in other areas and like the Lord has blessed their mind to be able to be an engineer or something. And so I would say that, like it's just as valuable for you to be an engineer and be a good godly influence in your workplace than it would be to become a pastor, and so the pastoral role is, like, very specific and like we do ministry. Yet our role is to equip people to do ministry. So while I was working at Starbucks for almost three years, that place attracts people who are not too fond of Christianity.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:11:59

Yeah, I can believe it.

Dylan Morrill: 1:12:00

And so what I tried to do there was different than what I had tried in a lot of other places, I don't know. I guess before that I had been very outright and bold. I was like you know, I'm going to preach the gospel. Don't really care what you think, here's the gospel Respond and receive it. And so I intentionally went into Starbucks before I even met any of my coworkers and I was like I'm going to try something different and I'm just going to love these people. Well, I'm going to build relationships, I'm going to pray for them and I'm going to look for opportunities every single day, um to show them the light of Christ or to like, share my faith. And so, um, I encountered hundreds of customers daily. I prayed for several customers, built incredible relationships. A coworker of mine in particular, like he had gone to church growing up and was away from church, was able to reintroduce him to church. Another friend of mine she also was far away from church brought her back to the church.

Dylan Morrill: 1:13:07

There's people who their perceptions of Christians and Christianity were all negative and so, after working with me for years on end, now have like positive views of the church. Some of them maybe have more positive view of me than the church. But I point all glory to Jesus in that, and so I was able to do so much ministry through Starbucks, so much ministry through window cleaning, um, just looking for those opportunities, not being too forceful. But it's all rooted in genuinely loving and caring for these people. And when I know the life change that I've experienced through Jesus, um, life change that I've experienced through Jesus, the hope I've experienced through Jesus, just all goodness through Jesus, like I want those I love to also experience this, and so it kind of takes away the burden of like trying to force this message on someone just so they'll believe a certain set of things. But I want them to encounter the living God who has the ability to transform any life in anybody.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:14:06

Yeah, it's a relationship, it's not a religion. People say, oh, you're religious. I'm like, no, not really. I have a relationship with my father. I mean, that is very different in my opinion. I do love that, so I'll keep this short, but I've talked about it on a podcast before, but for me, I was watching this Jim Baker and it's not the scary Jim Baker that got in trouble, so it's a different guy. Anyway, he was talking about in business and he's business-minded, but he's a believer, he's a pastor, and so he was teaching that like your business can be your ministry. And I kept thinking like, for a long time, I'm just, you know, I'm a capitalist, but I'm not greedy person.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:14:34

you know, and at the other day I was like I'm not out pastoring and I'm not out doing mission trips, maybe I'm not following the word of god. And then I listened to this guy and I'm like that's not true, because my business is my ministry, because I'm going to bring God through my employees as much as I can hire. I mean, like I said, they come in but some don't stay and that they can treat my customers Amazing. We're going to and if you look at reviews you can tell we treat people different because we care about them, all of my guys.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:14:58

If you go into that, my other little lunchroom over here, there's bibles on the table every lunchtime. They have sermons going because they all are believers and I love coming and listening to them talk about the lord and I hear them out back with their music blaring and it's, you know, christian music and it reminds me that, like I'm making a difference with my employees, I touch them, I touch their families. Then they go home and they, you know, love their wives, they're good to their families. My customers are treated well, they're not being taken advantage of by non-believers or some say they are and they're not. And so I think when you start to get the revelation of. Like you said, we all have a part to play. Just stand in that and then ask the Lord what do you want from me today? Who do you want me to witness to? Because I love that. Because Starbucks is a hard environment and you went in with a good smile and you showed people who are real, good, honest, authentic Christian is. I love that.

Dylan Morrill: 1:15:44

Yeah, and just one other aspect to touch on is, like your dudes, building the sheds can build that shed to the glory of God and the building, the shed in and of itself, can be glorifying to the Lord if we do it with the right heart and the right intentions and we do it well. We see throughout history that oftentimes the best artists, the best architects, they were followers of Jesus who were just trying to glorify him through their craft.

Dylan Morrill: 1:16:11

That's really good and so I think that in the modern day we can forget that doing these good things and bringing good culture and good creations to the world is honoring to our Father.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:16:22

Yeah, and then these guys who are honest, hardworking, they look out for us, we look out for them. I mean, they're honoring God by doing a good job for me. I mean truly, and God will take care of them. I had a story come to mind. I don't know if you can talk about it or not, but I remember being at your church and you were talking about you had the pop rocks and you had to go back to the dollar store and you thought you were supposed to pray for her.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:16:41

The cashier was it. I'm butchering the story, but I just remember thinking like I love that your heart was so open, even though you got there and it didn't pan out you still were willing to go back instead of being like nope, I'm gonna be late.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:16:52

You listen to the lord, so can you just give a real short thing on, like for anyone listening that maybe doesn't understand that, like how do you listen to the lord, but how do you hear from him? Because I had someone tell me a lot that like I never hear from him and I'm like are you spending time with him? Are you getting his word? So do you have anything you can tell them?

Dylan Morrill: 1:17:07

Yeah, I think the main Avenue in which we hear the Lord is absolutely through what he's already spoken Um. But I think the main issue that we have in not hearing from God is that we don't give him space to speak in our lives. Um, I don't know about you, but I always have a sermon on or a podcast on On my drive to work. I always have music playing. I'm always doing something, and so I think our culture and our world is just so noisy, so loud. That's so normal for so many people is just to always constantly have blaring noise, blaring noise, and we don't give the Lord the time and space to speak into our lives. We're never in silence. We never give him the opportunity to just open his mouth and for us to hear from him.

Dylan Morrill: 1:17:59

And oftentimes we can see prayer as like our communication to God. We can neglect the fact that the Lord also communicates to us, and so oftentimes, like what I feel the Lord speaking to me is like, so pertinent to the scriptures, like he just puts a scripture on my heart, on my mind. Maybe I'm supposed to share it with somebody else, maybe it's for myself, but that doesn't happen when I'm just hearing blaring noises from elsewhere, but then also the Lord can speak to us through others and I think maybe the Lord is speaking more than we're willing to recognize because it's not coming through the avenues in which we anticipated. And so maybe you're sharing an encouragement that is godly and biblical to your friend and that's what the Lord's trying to speak to them, but because it's coming from you, then they're not recognizing that, wow, this is the Lord trying to reach and speak to me.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:18:54

That's really really good, Dylan, yeah, Even John. This is when he was very early in his faith, but he was practicing hearing from the Lord. And he told me this years later but he was like he'd go in the closet and he had like white socks and black socks and he was like Lord, which socks should I wear? And like he would listen, and he said it took a lot of practice but cause some days he was like I don't wear that pair, but anyway, uh, that was he'd start with that and then it was like which way should I go to?

Tammy Hershberger: 1:19:22

so important for us to listen to the Lord because it'll keep us out of so much trouble and so much misery and pain if we just listen to him. I'm going to spring this on you. You can say no for this, it's okay. But if there's someone listening and they don't know the Lord and they want to, can you lead them to that real quick?

Dylan Morrill: 1:19:37

Yeah, would you be willing to do that?

Dylan Morrill: 1:19:38

Yeah, absolutely, and then when we finish that, do you want to just tell them again about your church, how we find you, and then we'll wrap this up, dylan, sure, okay, it's your platform. Yeah, so to become a follower of Jesus is simply to trust in his death and resurrection for the forgiveness of your sins. It is to come to the realization that we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, that we all have gone astray from the Lord, that he is our loving heavenly father and he deeply wants to know and love each and every one of us, that his way is the best way. There's a word in the Bible that to us, is a weird word, but it's repentance, and repentance simply means to change our mind. It is a change of mind that results in a change of life. To change my mind that I am my Lord, that I am my King, and to put the focus on Jesus, to fix our eyes on Jesus, to trust in the message that he brought, that where he says that the kingdom of God is at hand, that this new way of living, that this new way of speaking and thinking is the way of God, is the way of Jesus and Jesus lived a perfect and sinless life.

Dylan Morrill: 1:21:09

Jesus and Jesus lived a perfect and sinless life. He stepped onto, not stepped. He was nailed to the cross for us, the scriptures say that he bore all of our sins on his body on the cross. He who knew no sin, became sin so that we might become the righteousness of God. For we are saved by grace by the grace of God. It's not by our good works, it's not by the things we do, but it's simply receiving what God has given us, what God has done for us, and through faith, through trusting in Jesus' death and resurrection for the forgiveness of our sins, proclaiming that he is the Lord of the universe, that he's the Lord of all creation.

Dylan Morrill: 1:21:45

And so if you're in a place where you're interested in trusting in Jesus, turn to him now. He's always listening, he's always accessible and you can just speak to him. Turn your heart over him, turn your life over to him. If you want to reach out to me, absolutely do so. You can find me at Dylan D Morrill on Instagram or Dylan Morrill on Facebook. However you want to reach me, I'd love to talk to you more about Jesus and what following him looks like.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:22:19

Okay, and then the church Enjoy Church, and then the church Enjoy Church. Yes it's Enjoy Church it is 720 Grand Avenue.

Dylan Morrill: 1:22:28

It is right off of Grand and 7th Street in Grand Junction, Colorado. You can find us on Instagram at enjoychurchgrandjunction.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:22:37

Okay.

Dylan Morrill: 1:22:39

And then your service out. Do you have just Sunday services? We just have Sunday at 9 am, 9 am. Okay.

Tammy Hershberger: 1:22:42

Well, dylan, it's been an absolute pleasure having you. I adore you. If you ever want to come back, my door is always open for you. Thank you, and we just thank you all for listening. I ask you to like, subscribe and share and we will catch you guys next time. Thank you very much, dylan. Yeah, thank you. And remember, in the world of business, every success story begins with a passionate dream and ends with a strategic billion dollar handshake. Stay ambitious, stay innovative and keep making those deals that reshape tomorrow. Thank you all for tuning in and until next time, remember proverbs 3 3 says let love and faithfulness never leave you. Bind them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your heart. That way you will win favor and a good name in the sight of God and man. And remember if you like what you heard today, click the follow button so you never miss an episode.